Is the "judgment seat of God" Heavenly Father's or Jesus Christ's? 1 Nephi 10:21
From this recent talk by Brian K. Ashton (and lots of other places throughout the scriptures including 3 Nephi 24:5 and Malachi 3:5 etc.) we learn unambiguously that Jesus Christ is the judge.
Since he is the judge, I guess it is his judgment seat.
Saturday, December 22, 2018
How do you prevent yourself from heeding the pride of the world referred to in 1 Nephi 8:34?
How do you prevent yourself from heeding the pride of the world referred to in 1 Nephi 8:34?
Nephi is seeing the vision of the tree of life. In it there is a big group of people in a great and spacious building who are mocking the people who are holding onto the rod that leads to the tree of life.
The fruit of the tree of life is the love of God.
The iron rod leading to the tree is the word of God.
The great and spacious building and the people in it represent the pride of the world.
"As many as heeded [the multitude in the great and spacious building] had fallen away."
So the question is, how to prevent yourself from doing that. The first non-corpus linguistics questions so far, by the way. A personal question.
I asked my husband and kids at breakfast what they thought. They had these ideas:
- focus on holding onto the rod, i.e. reading your scriptures and saying your prayers
- don't worry about what other people think of you
How do you just not worry?
It is kind of like when Danny went on his mission. I remember I was sobbing huge crocodile tears of sadness. I called Danny's dad and talked to him on the phone. "What am I going to do?" His dad said, somewhat coldly, "well...suck it up!"
I wrote that on an index card. Because I'm a dork. It became a bookmark in my scriptures.
Actually, that advice, as cold as it sounds, was great. Suck it up.
Something that significantly helps me to care less about what other people think is to consistently read the scriptures. The scriptures are totally full of the message that every knee will bow, every tongue will confess that Jesus is the Christ. They testify that God loves his children. They testify that we are important to him. They testify of justice and mercy. They testify of the ability for us to repent when we screw up. They are a very strong source of positive motivation to keep living righteously and to keep the covenants I've made. I really value them, very deeply. There's no coincidence that the iron rod is a representation of the word of God. It is steadfast, sure, unwavering.
Nephi is seeing the vision of the tree of life. In it there is a big group of people in a great and spacious building who are mocking the people who are holding onto the rod that leads to the tree of life.
The fruit of the tree of life is the love of God.
The iron rod leading to the tree is the word of God.
The great and spacious building and the people in it represent the pride of the world.
"As many as heeded [the multitude in the great and spacious building] had fallen away."
So the question is, how to prevent yourself from doing that. The first non-corpus linguistics questions so far, by the way. A personal question.
I asked my husband and kids at breakfast what they thought. They had these ideas:
- focus on holding onto the rod, i.e. reading your scriptures and saying your prayers
- don't worry about what other people think of you
How do you just not worry?
It is kind of like when Danny went on his mission. I remember I was sobbing huge crocodile tears of sadness. I called Danny's dad and talked to him on the phone. "What am I going to do?" His dad said, somewhat coldly, "well...suck it up!"
I wrote that on an index card. Because I'm a dork. It became a bookmark in my scriptures.
Actually, that advice, as cold as it sounds, was great. Suck it up.
Something that significantly helps me to care less about what other people think is to consistently read the scriptures. The scriptures are totally full of the message that every knee will bow, every tongue will confess that Jesus is the Christ. They testify that God loves his children. They testify that we are important to him. They testify of justice and mercy. They testify of the ability for us to repent when we screw up. They are a very strong source of positive motivation to keep living righteously and to keep the covenants I've made. I really value them, very deeply. There's no coincidence that the iron rod is a representation of the word of God. It is steadfast, sure, unwavering.
What does it mean by the virgin was "extremely fair and white" in 1 Nephi 11:13?
What does it mean by the virgin was "extremely fair and white" in 1 Nephi 11:13?
In Czech, the word they use is "bělostná" which apparently means snow-white, lily-white, pure white, alabaster.
Going from the Czech meaning, I think it's pretty obvious to say that Mary, the mother of God, was white more of a symbolic way than a literal way. I guess she could have been albino. Huh.
As Semites, neither Mary nor Jesus were probably very white-skinned, despite what millennia of western art might have you think. But then again, they didn't wear Renaissance-era clothing, either. I guess artists typically personalize their versions of Jesus. And I guess that makes sense, even though it's really annoying.
This is the kind of question which I have less than zero interest researching online. It is like, pure fodder for anti literature. I really like Hugh Nibley (and by the way, according to my brother, Nibley's interpretation of the word "white" in the Book of Mormon is that it has little to nothing to do with race or skin), but I'm not an apologist. I hate conflict. It is kind of...hard enough to write any of this at all.
I think in order to study this in any amount of satisfaction, I would want to search the scriptures - mostly the Book of Mormon - for instances of the use of the word "white." I would want to see how often they definitely refer to skin color or race, how often they refer to "the mark", how often they refer to something else.
But that does not sound like a particularly instructive, useful way to spend my time, and a really great way to invite critics of the Book of Mormon to do their thing.
I have no personal problem with believing or accepting that the Nephites might have been racist. I think racism is terrible. I don't want to be racist.
Answer:
Mary was definitely a really righteous woman who was foreordained to be the mother of Jesus Christ. It seems she may have had remarkably pale skin, but maybe that is just a reference to her personal purity. Basically, I don't know and I don't think it's super important.
In Czech, the word they use is "bělostná" which apparently means snow-white, lily-white, pure white, alabaster.
Going from the Czech meaning, I think it's pretty obvious to say that Mary, the mother of God, was white more of a symbolic way than a literal way. I guess she could have been albino. Huh.
As Semites, neither Mary nor Jesus were probably very white-skinned, despite what millennia of western art might have you think. But then again, they didn't wear Renaissance-era clothing, either. I guess artists typically personalize their versions of Jesus. And I guess that makes sense, even though it's really annoying.
This is the kind of question which I have less than zero interest researching online. It is like, pure fodder for anti literature. I really like Hugh Nibley (and by the way, according to my brother, Nibley's interpretation of the word "white" in the Book of Mormon is that it has little to nothing to do with race or skin), but I'm not an apologist. I hate conflict. It is kind of...hard enough to write any of this at all.
I think in order to study this in any amount of satisfaction, I would want to search the scriptures - mostly the Book of Mormon - for instances of the use of the word "white." I would want to see how often they definitely refer to skin color or race, how often they refer to "the mark", how often they refer to something else.
But that does not sound like a particularly instructive, useful way to spend my time, and a really great way to invite critics of the Book of Mormon to do their thing.
I have no personal problem with believing or accepting that the Nephites might have been racist. I think racism is terrible. I don't want to be racist.
Answer:
Mary was definitely a really righteous woman who was foreordained to be the mother of Jesus Christ. It seems she may have had remarkably pale skin, but maybe that is just a reference to her personal purity. Basically, I don't know and I don't think it's super important.
Was Nephi actually physically present or was it a vision just in his mind in 1 Nephi 11:11?
Was Nephi actually physically present or was it a vision just in his mind in 1 Nephi 11:11?
He was "caught away in the Spirit of the Lord."
It seems to imply that he was literally in an exceedingly high mountain. But maybe that was just part of the vision.
He was not in his father's tent, as we learn in 1 Nephi 15:1.
Answer: I do not know. Maybe he was literally carried away. Maybe it was just in his mind. It could be either. I don't know from personal experience how visions work. They could work in a variety of ways. I guess it's not that important.
He was "caught away in the Spirit of the Lord."
It seems to imply that he was literally in an exceedingly high mountain. But maybe that was just part of the vision.
He was not in his father's tent, as we learn in 1 Nephi 15:1.
Answer: I do not know. Maybe he was literally carried away. Maybe it was just in his mind. It could be either. I don't know from personal experience how visions work. They could work in a variety of ways. I guess it's not that important.
Is Jesus Christ ever referred to as "the Most High God"? 1 Nephi 11:6
Is Jesus Christ ever referred to as "the Most High God"? In 1 Nephi 11:6 it seems to be referring to Heavenly Father.
This question goes with all the other questions about "which God" is it.
So I used Wordcruncher and discovered that there are 22 instances of the exact phrase "most high God" in the standard works, and I'm also counting Luke 8:28 which has "Jesus, thou Son of God most high."
OT : 9 in Genesis, Psalms and Daniel
NT : 4 in Mark, Luke, Acts and Hebrews
BoM : 6 in 1 Nephi, Alma and 3 Nephi
D&C : 3 in sections 36, 39 and 45
I discovered it's really hard to know exactly which member(s) of the godhead are being referenced. I also was strict, in that I only allowed myself to assign them to one category. These are the categories:
Jesus Christ
Heavenly Father
Holy Ghost
All Three At The Same Time
Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father
Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost
Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost
AMBIGUOUS <-- I did not allow any of them to stay in this category, even though that is where I put a lot of them at first.
Here's a list of all the instances of "most high God":
This question goes with all the other questions about "which God" is it.
So I used Wordcruncher and discovered that there are 22 instances of the exact phrase "most high God" in the standard works, and I'm also counting Luke 8:28 which has "Jesus, thou Son of God most high."
OT : 9 in Genesis, Psalms and Daniel
NT : 4 in Mark, Luke, Acts and Hebrews
BoM : 6 in 1 Nephi, Alma and 3 Nephi
D&C : 3 in sections 36, 39 and 45
I discovered it's really hard to know exactly which member(s) of the godhead are being referenced. I also was strict, in that I only allowed myself to assign them to one category. These are the categories:
Jesus Christ
Heavenly Father
Holy Ghost
All Three At The Same Time
Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father
Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost
Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost
AMBIGUOUS <-- I did not allow any of them to stay in this category, even though that is where I put a lot of them at first.
Here's a list of all the instances of "most high God":
And here is my biased, opinionated judgment about how many times they refer to whom:
Jesus Christ: 11
Heavenly Father: 5
All Three At The Same Time: 6
Answer: Yes. Here are the other eleven references to Jesus Christ as "the most high God":
Genesis 14:18
Genesis 14:22
Acts 16:17
Hebrews 7:1
Alma 26:14
3 Nephi 4:32 (twice)
3 Nephi 11:17
Doctrine and Covenants 36:3
Doctrine and Covenants 39:19
Doctrine and Covenants 45:66
The Holy Ghost is never referred to as "the most high God."
Friday, December 21, 2018
Who are the covenant people of the Lamb referred to in 1 Nephi 14:14?
Who are the covenant people of the Lamb referred to in 1 Nephi 14:14?
"I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth;"
Who are the covenant people of the Lamb?
Are they the saints of the church of the Lamb?
The covenant people of the Lord (is the Lord here God the Father?) are definitely descendants of the House of Israel, including descendants of Lehi in the Americas as 2 Nephi 29:2 points out. I am pretty sure this is repeated over and over and over and over and over throughout the other books of scripture. It would be interesting to know how often the scriptures refer to the covenant people.
The covenant is with "God" (see Mosiah 5:8 which to me seems to be a reference to God the Father).
Answer:
Yes and no.
The covenant people are both those people who actively make covenants (i.e. saints of the church of the Lamb, like for example, yours truly!) and their descendants.
You know, I have often thought about what it means for there to be just one family that is called the "covenant people." It seems to me that if this is taken literally, at some point, this will include every single human being on the face of planet earth. At least, this is how I felt when I saw that my DNA test had "2% Eastern European Jewish" ancestry (before the recent big update which removed all trace of Jewish heritage for me).
But I guess that is a deep hypothesis for another day.
The scriptures seem to be pretty clear, though, that people who are members of the Lord's church are also "covenant people." When we make covenants with God, what else could we be?!
The question I think I was trying to ask, but didn't, is to what extent is it possible for people who are not members of the Lord's restored church to make covenants with him and follow him? I am not sure about that. I don't think we have a monopoly on striving to follow God. I do think my church is literally the only church on the earth today to have the correct authority from God to administer specific ordinances like baptism. Ordinances are covenants. So...
...so temple work is really important.
If Jesus Christ is the "Lord God" then was he raising himself up in 1 Nephi 10:4? Or does this imply that the "Lord God" is Heavenly Father?
If Jesus Christ is the "Lord God" then was he raising himself up in 1 Nephi 10:4? Or does this imply that the "Lord God" is Heavenly Father?
The next related question I have is who made the covenant with Lehi in 1 Nephi 13:30 that, "the land which is choice above all other lands...his seed should have for the land of their inheritance"? This is another reference to the "Lord God."
In the temple today, I learned that without any shadow of a doubt, the word "Lord" can refer to God the Father. So, yes, it is plausible that here "Lord God" could refer to God the Father.
So these are just a handful of examples of how the words "Lord God" could mean either Jesus Christ or Heavenly Father or perhaps both. Agh!
I think the only way to get any kind of satisfactory answer about this is by gathering some data from searching the scriptures with a computer. I'm really glad I have this wordcruncher tool. I wish that I also had all of the standard works in one big, fat corpus so I could use other tools. But at least it allows me to do case-sensitive searches in word cruncher.
Search for 'Lord God'
Search for 'LORD'
Search for 'Lord' - not 'lord'
Perhaps cases of '. Lord' will really refer to lord and not Lord. Hmm.
There are probably other terms like Lord Omnipotent, Lord Almighty - I have not thought of all of them; maybe they are covered in 'Lord'.
There's also 'Lord ... God' - usually my/his/their/our etc.
It is going to take some work to try to figure out how to solve this problem. It is also going to require creating (i.e. getting my husband to create) a tool that exports the data into a spreadsheet. It is going to take some time.
So, to answer the question I was originally asking:
Probably in this particular verse "Lord God" refers to God the Father. Certainly the words "Lord God" elsewhere in the scriptures do refer to multiple members of the godhead. There are really only seven possibilities:
- God the Father
- Jesus Christ
- the Holy Ghost
- God the Father and Jesus Christ
- God the Father and the Holy Ghost
- Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost
- All of them at the same time
The eighth possibility is unsatisfactory, and that is that the reference is ambiguous. It's unsatisfactory because:
- Ambiguity = unknowable. God is not unknowable. He is also not ambiguous. He is real.
- My understanding of God should not be ambiguous!
- Is it the understanding of the writer that makes it ambiguous?
- Is it the language of whatever translation that makes it ambiguous?
The final question is this: does it matter? Does it matter which specific member of the godhead is acting, being referenced or described since they are all perfectly united in harmony of purpose - since they are all "one" in this way?
Whether or not it matters to you, it deeply matters to me. I think it matters a lot. I really, really, really, really want to know the actual nature of God.
I know this is not the only way to discover it. I know it is not a perfect way to discover it. I know it is not a complete way to discover it.
But it is a way.
The next related question I have is who made the covenant with Lehi in 1 Nephi 13:30 that, "the land which is choice above all other lands...his seed should have for the land of their inheritance"? This is another reference to the "Lord God."
In the temple today, I learned that without any shadow of a doubt, the word "Lord" can refer to God the Father. So, yes, it is plausible that here "Lord God" could refer to God the Father.
1 Nephi 14:8 asks, "Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel?" This seems to imply that God the Father made the covenants with the house of Israel, therefore it's reasonable that God the Father could mean the "Lord God."
1 Nephi 20:16 says, "Come ye near unto me; I have not spoken in secret; from the beginning, from the time that it was declared have I spoken; and the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me." Here Nephi is quoting Isaiah who is speaking Messianically, i.e. as if Jesus Christ is speaking. It seems pretty clear that Jesus Christ is referring to the other members of the godhead here, so the "Lord God" as Heavenly Father, and the Spirit as the Holy Ghost.
2 Nephi 6:9 says, "Nevertheless, the Lord has shown unto me that they [those who were at Jerusalem] should return again. And he also has shown unto me that the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, should manifest himself unto them in the flesh; and after he should manifest himself they should scourge him and crucify him, according to the words of the angel who spake it unto me." This is Jacob, Nephi's little brother, prophesying. It's very unambiguous here that the "Lord God" refers to Jesus Christ.
Then there's these verses in 1 Nephi 21:22-23 which exactly the same as Isaiah 49:22-24, which both start, "Thus saith the Lord God:" and later it is clarified that it is talking about the LORD, so Jehovah. Jehovah is always, always Jesus Christ. At least as far as I understand.
So these are just a handful of examples of how the words "Lord God" could mean either Jesus Christ or Heavenly Father or perhaps both. Agh!
I think the only way to get any kind of satisfactory answer about this is by gathering some data from searching the scriptures with a computer. I'm really glad I have this wordcruncher tool. I wish that I also had all of the standard works in one big, fat corpus so I could use other tools. But at least it allows me to do case-sensitive searches in word cruncher.
Search for 'Lord God'
Search for 'LORD'
Search for 'Lord' - not 'lord'
Perhaps cases of '. Lord' will really refer to lord and not Lord. Hmm.
There are probably other terms like Lord Omnipotent, Lord Almighty - I have not thought of all of them; maybe they are covered in 'Lord'.
There's also 'Lord ... God' - usually my/his/their/our etc.
It is going to take some work to try to figure out how to solve this problem. It is also going to require creating (i.e. getting my husband to create) a tool that exports the data into a spreadsheet. It is going to take some time.
So, to answer the question I was originally asking:
Probably in this particular verse "Lord God" refers to God the Father. Certainly the words "Lord God" elsewhere in the scriptures do refer to multiple members of the godhead. There are really only seven possibilities:
- God the Father
- Jesus Christ
- the Holy Ghost
- God the Father and Jesus Christ
- God the Father and the Holy Ghost
- Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost
- All of them at the same time
The eighth possibility is unsatisfactory, and that is that the reference is ambiguous. It's unsatisfactory because:
- Ambiguity = unknowable. God is not unknowable. He is also not ambiguous. He is real.
- My understanding of God should not be ambiguous!
- Is it the understanding of the writer that makes it ambiguous?
- Is it the language of whatever translation that makes it ambiguous?
The final question is this: does it matter? Does it matter which specific member of the godhead is acting, being referenced or described since they are all perfectly united in harmony of purpose - since they are all "one" in this way?
Whether or not it matters to you, it deeply matters to me. I think it matters a lot. I really, really, really, really want to know the actual nature of God.
I know this is not the only way to discover it. I know it is not a perfect way to discover it. I know it is not a complete way to discover it.
But it is a way.
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